No Pardons in Iran Case, Reagan Hints : Wants Trial to Run Course, Expects Term to End Before Verdict

WASHINGTON — President Reagan, in his most definitive public statement on the subject to date, indicated Monday that he will not pardon former White House aide Oliver L. North and three other accused co-conspirators in the Iran-Contra scandal.

Reagan said that he does not believe in granting pardons until someone has been convicted because such a step would leave unanswered the question of whether the defendant was guilty.

Apparently believing that the case involving the Iran-Contra figures will not be resolved before he leaves office in a little more than eight months, Reagan said: “I won’t have to face that issue.”

Interviewed by Columnist

The President’s comments were relayed by syndicated columnist Carl Rowan, who interviewed him at the White House Monday and then discussed Reagan’s remarks in an interview broadcast by WUSA-TV, the CBS television affiliate in Washington.

White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater said later that Rowan’s report was “an accurate reflection” of Reagan’s remarks. But, he added: “I don’t think it represents a definitive word on pardons. It wasn’t elaborated on in the discussion.”

He said he had not checked with Reagan to determine what he meant and that he interpreted the President’s comments as “a way of dismissing the issue at this point.”

“I don’t think it represents a decision on what he’s going to do about pardons,” Fitzwater said. “It’s his observation on the process.”

Reluctant to Discuss Issue

In the past, Reagan has been particularly reluctant to discuss the politically sensitive issue of pardons for North, John M. Poindexter, Richard V. Secord and Albert A. Hakim, and White House officials have said that they have no idea whether the President would pardon any of the defendants.

But, according to Rowan, Reagan said Monday that “he does not believe in giving pardons before people are convicted because it leaves a cloud of guilt down through the years.”

Poindexter, a retired Navy rear admiral, was Reagan’s assistant for national security affairs, and North, who has retired from the Marine Corps as a lieutenant colonel, was an aide to Poindexter. Both men played central roles in the sale of arms to Iran--part of an effort to win the freedom of Americans held hostage by pro-Iranian factions in Lebanon--and the subsequent diversion of funds to the Contra rebels fighting the Nicaraguan government.

Hakim and Secord, a retired Air Force major general, were key middlemen in the operation.

The four were indicted March 16 by a federal grand jury and have pleaded not guilty. Each was charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States. North and Poindexter were accused of theft of government property, wire fraud, obstruction of Congress and false statements.

In addition, Robert C. McFarlane, Poindexter’s predecessor as national security adviser, has pleaded guilty to four misdemeanor counts of withholding information from Congress in the scandal.

Poindexter resigned his senior White House post in November, 1986, and North was forced out under pressure at the same time, when the diversion of funds to the Contras was disclosed.

The earliest suggested date for a trial has been July, but defense lawyers have indicated that they will need several months beyond that to prepare their cases.

Postponement Seen

U.S. District Judge Gerhard A. Gesell has said that, if he cannot start the trial by midsummer, it will have to be postponed until after the November election to avoid any testimony during the campaign that traditionally starts on Labor Day. Thus, the trial and possible appeals would probably extend beyond the end of the President’s term next Jan. 20.

Reagan has come under considerable pressure from conservative allies to pardon North and Poindexter, and the Rev. Jerry Falwell claims to have obtained 600,000 signatures on petitions urging a pardon of North on grounds that he was following Reagan’s policies.

In recent months, the White House has given conflicting signals about what steps the President might take.

It has been reported that on March 22, at the end of a visit with House Republicans on Capitol Hill, he was urged by Rep. Henry J. Hyde (R-Ill.) to pardon the two “if nothing more significant develops.”

‘Like Sound of Words’

According to the Washington Post, Hyde reported that Reagan said of the pardon suggestion: “I like the sound of those words.” Another participant recalled that the President replied: “I like hearing what you said.”

Four days later, Reagan said in a question-and-answer session with high school students that he continued to see North as a “hero” and predicted that North and Poindexter would be found innocent of all charges. “I don’t think they were guilty of any law-breaking or any crime,” he said.

On the other hand, in comments more in line with those made Monday by the President, White House Chief of Staff Howard H. Baker Jr. has said that Reagan wanted the legal process to run its course--without specifying how far--before acting in any way on pardons.

Would Pass to Successor

Under the Constitution, a U.S. President has an unlimited right to grant absolute pardons to anyone. Should Reagan fail to act on a pardon for the Iran-Contra figures, the issue would pass to his successor.

Vice President George Bush, the apparent Republican presidential nominee, has not said how he would act on the matter. His spokesman, Peter B. Teeley, said that the vice president believes the question of a pardon of North or Poindexter “implies guilt and that these men are going through and should go through the legal process.”

Mark Gearan, press secretary for Massachusetts Gov. Michael S. Dukakis, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, said that the governor has not taken a public stand on the issue.

James Wieghart, spokesman for Lawrence E. Walsh, the independent counsel who is prosecuting Poindexter, North, Secord and Hakim, said that Walsh would have no comment.

Attorneys for North and Poindexter did not return telephone calls to their offices.